Who wants to live forever? 20 Great Answers with Michael Vermeersch, Accessibility Lead for Microsoft in EMEA

Michael Vermeersch (00:01): 

I think at a very young age, we’re talking five, six, I was the kind of child that would sit alone in a library reading encyclopedias. And then I saw that there was a lot to read and learn so I was never going to finish all the books in the library. So, I said, “Okay. I need to do something about this,” and my first aspiration then was to figure out how to live forever. Because, if I can live forever, I can read everything and learn everything there is to read and learn. But then I saw the major problem in this is death, the major blocker in this is cancer. So, my first dream as a small boy was to find the cure for cancer. 

Barrie Seppings (00:51): 

Hello and welcome back to Plugged In, Switched On, the podcast where we pull you into the conversations that matter in B2B tech marketing. I am your host, Barrie Seppings, and the quote you just heard at the top of the show was from Michael Vermeersch. He is the accessibility lead for Microsoft in EMEA. Fantastic conversation with Michael, more from him in just a moment. Now, if you are new here at the pod, let me show you around. We do three things here at Plugged In, Switched On. 

Firstly, we get some of the most interesting people like Michael in the B2B tech marketing world to tell us how and why they do what they do. Secondly, we often get some of the core skills a marketer needs, and we pull them apart and see how they work, what’s new, what’s old, what’s core and what you can learn to advance your career in B2B tech marketing. And finally, we also pull the curtain back on these teams and these leaders, how high-performance teams, particularly remote teams, in marketing and B2B tech and in the agency, world achieve what they do, how they build culture, how they collaborate. 

You’re more than welcome to listen to those special episodes, steal a few ideas for yourself. Now, we don’t try and do all those three things at once, we like to focus here on the pod. Today’s focus is an interview. We run the interview on a very simple rule, we ask every guest the same 20 questions. Invariably, we get 20 very different answers. Let’s go. 

Barrie Seppings  (02:26): 

Michael Vermeersch, your very first question on Plugged In, Switched On, as always, is the elevator pitch. The company that you are working for, Microsoft, what is it that they’re selling and why would anybody pay good money for it?

Michael Vermeersch (02:40): 

Microsoft’s mission is to empower every person and organization on the planet to achieve more. And that sounds really great as a mission statement and that’s what our products and services aim to do, and I think that you could argue that is already good value for money. But perhaps even more important is that, behind that opportunity, behind that mission statement, it has an element of accountability here. There’s an element of accountability behind that mission statement and for the empowerment of every person and every organization to work that requires to connect, to understand, to appreciate and, here it comes, that one size fits one. 

And that is where I come in as an accessibility go-to-market manager and see, for example, whether our products and services are truly accessible for every person on the planet. And I think that would then be my elevator pitch if ever I get in an elevator in this still hybrid world. But just quickly, caveat, this is a journey, we’re far from perfect, we’re still learning and still improving, and I think that that’s what makes it actually exciting and worthwhile. We’re never going to reach it but we will always aim for it because, guess what, the world evolves as well, right? 

Barrie Seppings (04:11): 

When you started in the role, did you feel like you were trying to push Microsoft to be better at it or were they already really keen to be better at accessibility and asked you to come on board? 

Michael Vermeersch (04:23): 

If you go really, really, really very far back and we’re getting into the northeast here, we already had, for example, sticky keys in our operating system where, for example, if you click five times the shift key, you can start using your keyboards one handedly. So, there was already accessibility in our products, absolutely. But I think it took a new speed to accelerate it when Satya Nadella, our current chief executive officer, came on board, I think it definitely accelerated then. He appointed our chief accessibility officer, Jenny Lay-Flurrie. 

So, in that sense it has been a journey in itself. But where I then came on board … So, my journey with Microsoft this plus 20 years where, first, I was very much focused on consultancy, working across all industries, really, genuinely public, private sectors and all sectors there. And I always saw that where it went wrong or where it went well, it was whether we didn’t focus on the people element or where we focused on the people element. So, where it didn’t go well is because we ignore the people element, where it did go well is where we focused on the people element. And that got me on a, well, we got the tech, we’ve got people doing the tech, I need to focus more on that people element and see where’s the mishap, where’s the barrier. 

And, on that sense, as and when I got more and more into this, a couple of years ago, it’s going to be in … next month, it’s going to be my third anniversary in this job, I went to the leadership team and saying, “Right, I think we’re at a moment here where I really want to focus more on this.” And our leadership team, they got together and, lo and behold, a couple of months later they said, “All right, we think that your position is in marketing.” And this is not just about vocalizing but also getting in touch with our market and understanding where we could still do better and feeding that back to our product groups and things like that. And making sure that the whole engine of Microsoft, because there’s a lot of people there, then get elevated onto that journey as well. 

Because everybody has a big dashboard, loads of things to do, what is the priority so then making sure that this is part of our DNA on where I sit but definitely working more and further on that closer connection with organizations and people. 

Barrie Seppings (07:13): 

Question number two, your superhero origin story. Michael, growing up, did you dream of working in technology and marketing? Or perhaps another way to say it, what were you told when you were at school that you would be good at? 

Michael Vermeersch (07:26): 

Well, so the answer is totally no to any of that. I think, at a very young age, we’re talking five six, I liked reading and learning and that’s when I got more into this. I was the kind of child that would sit alone in a library reading encyclopedias and then I saw that there was a lot to read and learn. So, I was never going to finish all the books in the library, they were always looking strangely at why there’s this small child in the library. So, I said, “Okay, I need to do something about this,” and my first aspiration then was to figure out how to live forever. And I say, “Okay, that’s my first goal because, if I can live forever, I can read everything and learn everything there is to read and learn.” But then I saw as and when I was, we’re talking then getting a little bit older, six, seven, sight, bummer, the major problem in this is death, the major blocker in this is cancer. 

So, my first dream as a small boy was to find a cure for cancer and it was then how do you go about this because my parents were blue collar people, working class people. They encouraged me to learn but I didn’t know what to do on how to address this problem and get into it. So, I came across an article in a magazine and it was a professor talking about genetics and DNA and all of that kind of stuff. So, at the age of 10, with the encouragement of my parents, I wrote to that professor, I said, “I think this is what I want to do. I think this is what will get me where I want to get to.” And lo and behold, I did get an answer back, the professor was saying, he was saying, ideally, what I should focus on my life journey. So, at the age of 10, I decided then I needed to focus my complete purpose on genetics, biology and all of that kind of stuff. And that’s then how I first started in genetics, molecular biology and got my degrees first in that. 

Barrie Seppings (09:44): 

Did you start working in science and then wind up in technology or did you get to the end of the degree and say, that’s enough, I need to change? 

Michael Vermeersch (09:52): 

During all of this, and we’re talking ’80s and stuff like that, I already said like, “Oh, let’s look into this IT thing as well because it can help me with my number crunching on the research I was doing.” So, I already got involved in mainframe programming and what it could do for me for my thesis and so on. So, there was already that connection. However, where I was failing was in the politics, the politics in research, the politics in labs and all of that kind of stuff because I was really focused on my purpose but I wasn’t focused yet on the gameplay, all of that kind of stuff. 

And at one point it was clear that I just couldn’t do that, I was just too focused on immunoglobulins, on amino acids, all of that kind of stuff. I just said, “You know what, I’ll go into this IT field because it’s also code, it’s clean. If something goes wrong, I can push this button, it’s called the reset button and I can start over again. There’s no people involved, it has no judgment, all of that kind of stuff.” And you know what I said to myself, code lives forever as well and there’s immense things that you can do to empower and that’s then how I got onto the IT fields. 

And on the same thing, we then had the Atari coming out, the first Macintosh coming out and there was a lot of excitement and there was this thing like this is for everybody but we still need to explore the potential of what technology and IT can do for you. And now that you asked me this, I hadn’t thought about this, but we are looking at artificial intelligence and artificial intelligence can bridge so many gaps for us humans, help us to focus on what matter and that, ultimately, will accelerate creating that eternal life and help us to accelerate on focusing on our purpose which maybe that small boy is still getting its desire, its wish. There you are. I’ll tell you in another 10 years. 

Barrie Seppings (12:11): 

Question number three, I’d do this for free. Michael, what part of your job do you just naturally enjoy? 

Michael Vermeersch (12:17): 

So, when I got into this role, it was a unique role and they created it based on my credentials, based on my passion, based on what I had already done but it didn’t come with a job description. I found very rapidly I needed to very quickly write it down or, otherwise, other people would tell you what to do. So, as an accessibility go-to-market manager, I said I need to focus on three things. One, making sure that our products and services are accessible. Skills and awareness, there’s still a lot of gaps in this area, there’s still a lot of skills to be looked at and for people to gain and there’s a lot of awareness as well. What does this mean if your product and your service is not inclusive? And this is nobody’s fault, right? 

Another example, when you’re born with a disability, when you acquire a disability, you do not necessarily know what is out there that could help you either. It’s not just the professionals, it’s just the people that we want to serve, they don’t necessarily know what is going to help them either. So, there’s a lot to be done in that area. That’s number two. Focus number three, culture, culture in the workplace. If the culture of an organization is not right, then you will not reap the benefits, then you will not want to reap the benefits. You’ll not be aware of the benefits that will come with including diversity and, two things, in acquiring talent, disabled talent and catering inclusively for your market and making sure that you can also address the markets in disability. That’s a big market, there’s a lot of money there as well and money that cannot flow back into the economy. 

Now these three points, that takes a different approach to technology and this, again, goes to connecting it to every person and I hasten to say that none of us are an average person. We are all unique and, throughout our lives, we change. We got good days, we’ve got bad days, we age, our mental well-being will change throughout our lives and, even now, you see this that, as we age longer, there are different problems coming to our globe. Things that happened in the world, we had COVID and things like that, has had a huge impact to our mental well-being. The lockdown, the hybrid, things are very messy, things are very still new to be learned. We’ve got to challenge healthcare across the globe, we’ve got sustainability to look into now because our planet is finite so how can we use best those resources and all of these problems can put barriers in the way of everybody reaching their potential. 

I love looking into this and I love looking into this for every person both from an opportunity perspective and from an accountability perspective. That gets me out of bed and I’ll do that for free. Well, I do need to eat and this computer running internet has a cost and all that kind of stuff but I’ll do this with pleasure. 

Barrie Seppings (15:23): 

Question four, control, alt, delete. What’s the one career move or moment you wish you could go back and undo? Can you recall a moment in your career where it’s very clear you just learned a lesson? 

Michael Vermeersch (15:35): 

So, I think it’s a very good and vital learning session. I just finished the latest book from Adam Grant and it was about potential. And thinking back, I think I loved every job that I did because, even as a student coming from a working class family, I worked at any given moment to pay for my studies, to have a bit more money to be able to pay for my studies but also to spend how I wanted to spend there. So, I got no regrets there. But then again, there have been a couple of moments that I cried. Cried because of the mismatches, cried because of the gaps, cried because of the barriers but those moments then helped me make decisions for the next steps. So, if it wasn’t for those moments, I wouldn’t have made those next steps. Where do I go now? And even a bit on what I hinted going from scientific research and biology engineering and all that kind of stuff, making that decision to go, well, okay, I am still my valuable me going to IT and all of that kind of stuff. So, that’s one example of that. And those lessons are still happening, every day they’re happening. 

I’m reading a lot of Brené Brown as well and every page of her books, and she wrote a lot of books, is a valuable lesson. I have to sit down,  relax, right? What’s on this page? It’s a page turner but you cannot turn this page because there’s a valuable lesson here. And I think that shows you that there is continuously learning and lessons to be learned in self-improvement and how to connect closer to human beings. I think one book that especially stuck for me is the one, Give and Take from Adam Grant, it explained me why I was enjoying a new-found focus on accessibility and why and how I could work on this 24/7 and still not feel burned out. What the book illustrated very much in the first pages was when you have a purpose in your life and you identify what that impact means and would look like and then working towards achieving it makes everything worthwhile. I think, at that point, you just made me think, you just found a way to run perpetually and that’s eternal life, isn’t it? We’re turning back to that very first question. 

Barrie Seppings (18:08): 

Question five, shout out. Who have you learned the most from in your career, which individual? And even if it was what not to do. 

Michael Vermeersch (18:17): 

This could be stereotypical. My wife. I share a lot with her. I whinge, I share my joy, I share my successes, I share my downfalls, my pitfalls, my bumps. And I do check things with her, am I right, am I wrong and I get so level-headed answers back, she grants me. So, that’s it. 

Barrie Seppings (18:43): 

Question six. The only constant in marketing is clichés. So, the rate of change, particularly in the world of technology, is really celebrated but humans actually aren’t very good at change, we find it uncomfortable. You’re in a role where have to lead people towards change. How do you personally keep finding the energy to lean into change? 

Michael Vermeersch (19:07): 

I think probably also that experience of key element in all of this is people and then you get to that point of that change. We didn’t start this in the beginning but then we got into using this great adoption change management approach. It’s a methodology from Prosci and there’s some good parts in, well, there’s all good parts in there, but some parts that highlight to me is they summarize something, and it’s called ADCAR. An ADCAR, alpha, delta, kilo, alpha, Romeo, is an acronym for awareness, desire, knowledge, ability and reinforcement. And basically, it is showing that there is a journey in adoption change management. I’m now going to go through all of these things but one of them is that the D stands for desire which shows that you need to show to people what’s in it for them, why should they change. And the R at the end is the reinforcement. We’re changing habits here and we know changing habits is tough. Every new year, we make new resolutions and how many of those happen? And that’s when then that reinforcement is you need to celebrate this. You would say, “Yeah, good job, look at what you achieve now and this is what you get now.” So that is that part of that methodology. 

Now, I also like very much the Tao of Pooh which is a book from Benjamin Hoff. A lot of people always pick up their ears a bit on when they hear me say the word poo. So, that’s pooh, P, double O, H. Winnie the Pooh, the bear not the other thing. And basically what it says here is swim with the stream of change and still do your change. I know some people might find this hard to accept but this is a messy world and there are big things happening always. And if you go completely against the stream, it can make things harder and you will have to put up a more fight. But if you can see where the streams are going and say, “Okay, I see where you’re going.” Now, just this nudge can get me more accessibility, this nudge will make you more successful. And meanwhile, it drives the purpose to be more inclusive for everybody. 

And that is what I learned from that book, The Tao of Pooh. There’s always a lot happening, go with the strategic flows, get your stuff aligned. You’re not sacrificing your values here, you’re just saying, okay, I recognize how big things happening and let’s make it as a village job. 

Barrie Seppings (21:51): 

Question seven, here’s to your health. You’ve got a demanding role, people are always after your time and your attention, who is presenting, performing. How do you keep yourself healthy and manage your stress of physical health, mental health in a role like this? What’s your routine? What do you do for you? 

Michael Vermeersch (22:10): 

Before I have the answer the question, the caveat will be I do fail at times and then I pick back up, myself back up. But during the pandemic, I developed a routine. The way I saw it evolving, the pandemic, was that, ooh, we’re going to be locked up, we’re going to be locked up, we’re going to be in the same house. Wow, what does that mean? And I looked around me, I said, “Where has this ever happened before?” And then I got to, hang on, we’ve done this human experiment before. It’s the astronauts, the astronauts in the space station. They get locked up, they can’t go out, at best they can have a bit of a communication which has its own lags and what have you and they have to do work and have meaning and all of that kind of stuff. Okay, so what do they do? And out of that, I started building up my own routine. 

And so, in order to stay healthy, I’ve got an exercise routine, a sleep routine and a work and eat routine. Guess the work that comes back here, routine. Now, routines do break, right? We’ve got live and life doesn’t necessarily adjust to your routine but having a framework around you and then seeing if it stays put, you know things are okay. When work takes over and you have to start dropping your staying healthy, dropping your sleep, ooh, I’m sleeping six hours a day now what’s going on or have skipping lunch, I skipped lunch yesterday as well. Oh, what’s going on? You then see, thanks that framework that you had put in place, that things are being eroded and that can happen once, things can happen, that can happen twice. But if it keeps on being eroded, then you know something’s going wrong. Ooh, what’s happening here? Step back. And then you can  say, okay, how do I get back to my framework? Because life is messy, life is not constant but, by having that framework of good habits, I can then continuously check. 

Now, some of the things I specifically do, reading and gaming. I read for extra input, always learning, getting solutions to problems who are yet to come or getting different insights and perspectives. Thanks to our chat here, I’m already getting … My mind is already buzzing here, I’m like, “Huh,” there’s new connections happening. Gaming, you know what, this is a tough world sometimes and sometimes things can take a long time before you get to a result. With gaming, I get little wins. I then take that little win of like, “Yay, good job. You might not have finished this marketing campaign yet but you killed that big boss in the game. Tick. I saved the gaming world. Tick.” So, now, paraphrase out what works for you, create your little wins in your life. You had the post delivered, you talk to that post person and you cheered up their day, tick, little win. That person will be happy and give it forward the next delivery they do. 

So, yeah, put some of those things in there and that allows you to escape off the drudgery that sometimes comes with our work. 

Barrie Seppings (25:28): 

Question eight, unique snowflakes. Now, every market or industry or territory, a little segment group that you market to likes to think that they’re different, they’re unique. In your experience, which one really is? 

Michael Vermeersch (25:41): 

You know what we all have in common, the market, the industry and territory, I hope, quickly add. We all have people in common, we all serve people and we are all on this one finite planet. And anything that forgets this or ignores this, in my opinion, is doomed to be challenged and disappear. Some markets, some industries, some territories might ignore this but I think they will pay for this or they will pay a cost, it will cost them more. And I think that’s about the best answer I can give to your question. 

Barrie Seppings (26:17): 

Question nine, green with envy. What’s the campaign or event or idea or launch some marketing activity that you’ve seen that you really wish that you’d done? 

Michael Vermeersch (26:29): 

This is a tough question because there’s so much to pick from. But whenever I play this video, I’m keeping it a suspense here, whenever I play this video, it excites people. And this one is called When Everyone Plays, We All Win. I’m going to get teary now. It’s the Xbox advert with the adaptive controller. You see all these kids, you see the parents, you see the disabled kids and they are acing it. They are acing it playing their game with the adaptive controller where they can finally participate, and you see the parents feeding back on they can be like any other kids, and they can join in with their friends and they are doing even better. And I think that is a state, when everyone plays, we all win. 

Barrie Seppings (27:24): 

Question 10, that really gets my goat. What’s the one thing in this industry that’s gone on for too long and you think needs fixing? 

Michael Vermeersch (27:32): 

I feel that there’s still not enough representation of disability in marketing and media or even inclusive products out there. It’s coming but there’s still not enough being done there. And it’s 20% of the population, hence, one in five. One in two people on this planet know, love or care about somebody with a disability so why is there not more representation of disability in marketing and in media. Yeah, it gets my goat, I can whinge forever here. 

Barrie Seppings (28:06): 

Question 11, truth serum. What’s the one question you’d ask an agency if you knew they had to tell you the truth? 

Michael Vermeersch (28:14): 

Not so long ago, I gave workshops around confident conversations and disabilities. One of the key points of the workshop is to have a strong expectation of a positive outcome. The reason why this was said was we all have our own experience and then, sometimes, when we have certain experience, which could be negative, you are worried then to have that strong expectation of a positive outcome. And if you’re disabled, you might then cover, you might then mask, you might not ask for that adjustment. But on the other hand, the other side, people aren’t mind readers. So, to meet halfway, it does take both parties and that takes courage, really, it takes courage, I acknowledge that so have that strong expectation of a positive outcome. So, in that context, I always expect the truth when I work with an agency. 

Specifically here working with Splendid or any other agency, I would expect the agency to know their job, their strengths so, my question is what do you need from me to give you the best possible outcome. Because I would expect you to know your job but I do know that we’re working on this together so what do you need from me? Your experience, tell me, where has it gone well, not so well, where does it go better with the other party? Do tell me. Now, the bonus question is tell me if you feel you’re not getting it. If I’m not giving you enough time, if I’m not giving you enough input, if I’m not telling you the why, tell me, don’t assume. So, that’s the one question, maybe two questions here but it’s about truth that … Well, actually, the question itself if you knew you’d get the truth but we’re in this together so please do go for it. 

Barrie Seppings (30:04): 

Question 12, better together. How do you make the call between collaborating with someone particularly, for example, somebody in your team or somebody you’re leading and then knowing when to step back and let them do their thing? 

Michael Vermeersch (30:19): 

I used artificial intelligence to answer that question, I felt that was … I just couldn’t go for just telling stuff and then miss something out. I felt that’s such an important question. I did then check, of course, the answer and I did use Copilot and that’s where it stands, co-pilot, it’s the co-pilot, you’re still the pilot. So, in general, there’s no one size fits all approach and flexibility and adaptability are key. Balancing collaboration and autonomy in a project requires, indeed, as to your question, some considerations and here are the points, da, da, da, dam. Project goals and scope. We need to consider what the overall goal is of the project and the scope. If it’s a collaborative effort with shared objectives, what the role is of active collaboration in this. If the project allows for individual contribution within specific areas, we need to give the team members there that autonomy so they can really go with their creative solutions. 

So, in this context, for example, in Splendid, there’s some stuff you do really well. The eBook that was produced looked so, so nice and I know nice doesn’t cut it but there’s no way I could … That’s your strength, boom. Expertise and strengths is the other element here. So, each team member will have their expertise and strengths. So, of course, I briefed on accessibility, I gave pointers on disability inclusion, the stats there and all of that kind of stuff. So, collaborate and see where your skills can complement because what your team then did was right. So, how do we make this understandable and relatable to the audience and who is the audience? 

Again, if someone has specialized knowledge or unique abilities, trust them to handle their part independently. Communication, trust. Open communication, talk. Better to over-talk than to under-talk, regular check-ins, updates, feedback sessions. Trust, really key in this as well, trust that people well. And when there’s trust, people demonstrate reliability and competence, allow that autonomy. 

Barrie Seppings (32:33): 

Question 13, change your mind. What’s a long-held belief about marketing that you may have had earlier in your career that you had to change your mind about and you no longer hold that belief? 

Michael Vermeersch (32:44): 

When I was offered this role, I was worried. And as I said yes, I secretly, they don’t know yet but they will know now. I’ll say this louder, they don’t know yet but they will know now. I did a lot of courses like how do you do a go-to-market plan, how do you do your market research and all that content made sense to me and all that content made sense to the question how. But when I then got into the job, reality felt different. And then I followed the session which our chief marketing officer gave and he talked about brand love and marketing. And what he was discussing there were growth, inclusion and thought leadership, not how. Those gave me the answers to why and what and this allowed me to refocus on brand. 

So, in summary, from the outside in, I believed that marketing was about how. But once inside, when I got into the job, what defines your brand and why does that define your brand, that is more important. 

Barrie Seppings (33:52): 

Question 14, put your money where your mouth is. Let’s get practical in terms of effectiveness and ROI. What tactics and approaches, what activities are you doing that really work for you? What channels and even technologies are you finding are useful and effective? 

Michael Vermeersch (34:09): 

I’ve learned a lot in those three years on that sense and accessibility as a go-to-market is not a topic that is ubiquitous, it’s not everywhere. We are looking at change and one thing I learned in change management is that you need to tell your people, you need to tell your audience the same message five to seven times before it sinks in. What I learned in marketing is that you need to tell that message in five to seven different ways. Do the math, that’s 35 to 49 times. So, what I’m trying to say is you got your message but then you need to do a video, you need to do a podcast, you need to do an ebook, all of that before you reach the ultimate market, the maximum market. 

So, what that also then means is that driving change can take a while. And in the beginning of this journey, and this is still happening too much, is that there are a lot of customers out there who want to know more, that’s awesome, and then they say they are inspired when they get to know more. You give them a session, you give them a presentation, you give them that ebook and they say they’re inspired, tick. But then three to six months later, they want an update, they want to hear more and, when they hear more, they say they’re inspired. Now, that’s all fine but I’ve come to the realization here, and I’m so happy that you asked this question that this gets public, we’re not doing anybody any service by just inspiring. We have an opportunity, but we also have a responsibility here. We need to measure the opportunities, measure the influence revenue, the lasting changes and the benefits that come as and when a customer adopts accessible experiences for their workforce, for their customer base and that is what I’m focusing more and more on during my journey. 

I meet with finite, right? So, if I’m finite and I want a lasting impression, a lasting impact, then I need to be really, right, what are you going to do now with this information, what are the change that you are going to do? 

Barrie Seppings (36:18): 

Question 15, overhyped. What buzzword or concept do you think is getting too much airplay in our industry right now? 

Michael Vermeersch (36:27): 

Artificial intelligence, AI,it has taken center stage. And then they mix that together with the word disruptive innovation and that then gets, oh, what’s happening. But if you then look at what does that really mean, this should mean creating new markets by introducing products or services that shake up the existing market, that shake up the status quo so that we have the buzz, we have the buzz. You need to think beyond the buzz. What is really that disruptive innovation? What stands out behind this? And this is then where I want to move further from AI and the notice of disruptive innovation. What does it mean for us? What does it mean for humans? What does it mean for the disabled community? What does it mean from a neuroinclusion perspective, for example? 

So, we have to move on from the buzz because, in itself, it has no meaning and actually could work against us if we do not translate what that disruptive meaning actually means and what it will bring for you. The buzzwords are there to grab that first attention, the inspiration but then it’s the timeless ideas that truly drive success, what you’re going to do with it, what does it mean. 

Barrie Seppings (37:47): 

Question 16, this is our supermodel question. So, you may have heard some supermodels don’t get out of bed for less than $10,000. Michael, what do you get out of bed for? What gets you up in the morning? 

Michael Vermeersch (38:00): 

So, I could be so in trouble but I’m going to say this. A year ago, I said exactly the same thing to somebody else and the figure was even higher. And seriously, the context of that was a conversation where there was an accessibility opportunity with a customer and it was quantified and the number was low, the revenue indicated was low and it indicated to me that it wasn’t high on the agenda. If you look at the business that the customer was making and the revenue that was involved, it was just an inspirational effort. So, yes, I was asked to give a warm, cuddly feeling but that doesn’t help on where we will drive change, drive inclusion, bridge that disability divide, how we would make our finite planet a better place to live, work and play where everybody can be their best selves just by being themselves. 

So, on that sense, I felt guilty that I referred I’m not getting out of bed for that amount of money. But looking back/, because there’s that moment like, “That was very brave of you, Michael, to say that,” but then looking back, no, that made absolute sense. That wasn’t going to make things better so, therefore, I’m not getting out of bed. 

Barrie Seppings (39:21): 

Question 17, this isn’t happening. What’s the most unexpected or unusual situation you’ve found yourself in thanks to work, not just Microsoft, but in your whole career? Where has it been? 

Michael Vermeersch (39:32): 

I was due at a National TV Broadcasting Company, I was carrying something very fragile and the elevator’s doors closed on me and they literally gripped me in such a way I was stuck and couldn’t move. I was holding onto this fragile thing in both hands and could not possibly let go, I was alone. And then the lights went out and here I was. What do I do? Hello? Anybody there? I was shouting and I was starting thinking how will I get out of this predicament. Maybe if I force myself forward and then let myself drop and turn around and cushion the product I was carrying and then cushion it with my body so it drops on me rather than … Going all through my mind. And then somebody came around, pushed on the button and then casually went into the elevator and that was a well-known quiz show host. 

Barrie Seppings (40:22): 

And then did he acknowledge that you were stuck or, no, he just went about his business? 

Michael Vermeersch (40:25): 

No, he took it very … I’m not sure he realized it, he probably … I do not know but I was so relieved, and I was so gob smacked that I was standing next to the celebrity. I had my hands full so I couldn’t even ask for an autograph. 

Barrie Seppings (40:46): 

Question 18, home alone. What was the pandemic, and the lockdown experience like for you and your family? And then how has that changed the way that you approach work? 

Michael Vermeersch (40:58): 

So, going back to a previous question which talked a little bit about that, I thought about on situations where human have been or put in the same situation. So, I thought about astronauts and space station and then I said, “Okay.” In order to stay sane, healthy, stay on top of a finite supply of food because, in some ways, it looked like we might actually have to struggle for getting our food and other things, food, energy. So, I saw that, okay, so they follow a strict routine, they measure things, exercise, bad food, there had to be fun in there as well. I also then realized there was going to be a lot of sitting down, there was going to be a higher dependency on technology and a higher dependency on having the right work environments. So, I got myself and my wife a gaming chair, they are actually cheaper than ergonomic office chairs and they’re still as good, if not, better. I invested in backup systems, resilience in technology to make us less dependent on the outside. So, that became a bit part of my life as well. 

And all those measures have served us well and we still use them and stick to them but it’s clear now I need to … But I do have a headset with a boom as well as a microphone but, yeah, it’s then having that redundancy as well. So, to prepare for the unexpected but, on the other hand, then also know that the unexpected will happen as well and see what you do then. And we’ll get to that, I promise, we’ll get back to that question. 

Barrie Seppings (42:28): 

Question 19. 

All of me. Lots of businesses, they say they want their staff to bring their whole self to work, it’s a really common slogan, corporate slogan. Is that true for you and in the company you’re in now, in Microsoft? And how different are you when you’re in work mode compared to when you are off the leash, when you’re just at home relaxing or maybe out traveling or doing things just for yourself? 

Michael Vermeersch (42:54): 

Masking and covering has been part of my life and it’s also part of my disability. But what I have noticed and I try to advocate for is, when people can be their true selves, there are more benefits. And I think it’s fair to say that, due to my disabilities, I still face barriers where I balance the greater purpose versus my own needs. So, I will still cover and mask when I can see that it helps drive the purpose I seek further and faster. I will pay that tax and sometimes that tax more so. I will be tired, exhausted, there are things I will  then not do having paid that tax but the results are there. 

And on the other hand, my wife who always grounds me, she tells me that I always work. And you know what? She’s always right, my wife as well. So, there you are, that’s a bit of the answer to your question too. It looks like I’m always in work mode and I’m never off the leash, but I do feel that I work towards a greater purpose and that, on the other hand, helps as well. And I mixed that in with my authenticity as well because that’s what I wanted, that’s what this five-year-old boy set out to do. 

Barrie Seppings (44:12): 

Question 20, secret weapon. Michael, do you have a secret weapon that you use at work? And if you do, will you tell me what it is? 

Michael Vermeersch (44:19): 

Humor. Humor is a big part of my arsenal, it’s in my arsenal. Is it a secret? I think there’s not enough humor in the world so, therefore, it must be a secret. Humor plays a vital role, I think, in human well-being, it differentiates us of anything else out there, it plays a role in our well-being and our social interactions. And I think, and I did ask here Copilot just to make sure that I make the point, because I feel its humor but why. Let’s use the collaborative knowledge which is out there and why it’s important. It helps with stress. Laughter triggers the release of endorphins. Our bodies naturally feel-good chemicals, all of that kind of stuff. Social bonding, it helps create social bonding. Sharing a laugh, creates connections. Humor helps build that relationships versus stress and strengthens and social bonds. I had that in spades with Splendid, it’s amazing. 

Enhance creativity. Playful thinking and humor encourage creative problem solving, that’s how humans evolve as well. And in play, which has to be part of humor, plays a role in there. We can see the situations, different angles. Health benefits. Regular laughter boosts the immune system, improves our cardiovascular health, even reduces pain perception, coping mechanism. Humor helps us cope with adversity because is this a messy world. I’m not even going to talk about the upcoming elections but humor provides perspective, it lightens heavy situations and eases emotional pain. So, embrace the funny side of life, it’s good for you. So, there you are, humor is my secret weapon. 

Barrie Seppings (46:06): 

And that was 20 questions, the interview game we play with all our B2B tech marketing guests here on the Plugged In, Switched On Podcast. Those answers came from Michael Vermeersch, he is the accessibility lead for Microsoft in EMEA. Before I let Michael go, I asked him to tell me what his all-time favorite movie was. 

Michael Vermeersch (46:30): 

There was a movie that I saw again and I said, yeah, and I need to see it again but I didn’t think that this movie would do this to me. But when I saw it again, I said, “Oh yeah,” and that was Shawshank Redemption. Now, don’t ask me why, I would need to see the movie again. But when I saw the movie, I said, “Oh, yeah, spot on and I need to see this movie again.” 

Barrie Seppings (46:59): 

Turns out that’s a popular one. Now, before we unplug for this episode, just a quick overview. Splendid Group is a pure play tech marketing agency where I’m the executive creative director. I’m based in Sydney but I don’t go into the Sydney office because Splendid does not have an office in Sydney. In fact, we don’t have any offices, we do have very senior experienced tech B2B marketing people all around the globe. We get them to work where it suits them and on schedules that suit them as well and they get to work on very interesting accounts with some of the biggest brands and some of the best people like Michael in B2B tech marketing. 

If you are thinking it’s the sort of agency where you might like to extend the next chapter in your career, encourage you to get in touch. Point your browser at splendidgroup.com, take a little look around and send us a message. I have been and remain Barrie Seppings. I was talking with Michael Vermeersch of Microsoft in what has been a 20 questions episode of Plugged In, Switched On, a podcast about the conversations that matter in B2B tech marketing. Hit subscribe in your pod dashboard and you’ll hear us again automatically next month. Thank you for having us in your ears. Plugged In, Switched On is generated by Splendid Group. Thanks to our executive producer Ruth Holt and our CEO, Tim Sands.